. you're not natalie. natalie is out sick. soirm. quickly, y 2 k mania -- "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ one of the things i said throughout this process is we got to get out of the habit of governing by crisis, and my hope and expectation is everybody has

learned that there's no reason why we can't work on the issues at hand. so hopefully that's a lesson that will be internalized and not just by me but also by democrats and republicans not only the leaders but the rank-and-file. thanks very much, everybody. >> mr. president, will this happen all over again in a few months? >> well for the first time in 17 days the federal government is up and running this morning, a final congressional vote last night, capped an ugly drama on capitol hill where partisan politics drove the nation's economy into the very brink. in the end lawmakers avoided defaulting on the federal debt but nevertheless there's plenty of damage to go around. 87 house republicans joined democrats in supporting legislation to fund the government into early next year while raising the debt ceiling to cover what's already been

spent. not a single democrat opposed it. on the senate side 18 republicans opposed the bill among them ted cruz, mike lee, rand paul and marco rubio. for those tea party senators and their conservative allies in the house it's a stinging defeat. the republican party is left weakened by a political ploy that caused the u.s. economy an estimated $24 billion. good morning, everyone. it's over. it's tuesday, october 17th. thursday. why do i keep doing that. on tuesday i said thursday. with us on set we're here in washington. "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. abc news political commentator, cokie rockets, columnist for bloomberg view al hunt and in nashville john mecham.

good to have you all on board today. what a show today. >> we have so much going straight ahead. yesterday my good friend carl bernstein was talking about the end of all time. i exaggerate a little, carl. but this is going to -- i said carl it will be over tomorrow. you said something to me because we've been around here a little while. we knew how this was going to end before it started. i always said, okay, right before the deadline, on the debt ceiling, they fold. >> we knew how it was going to end but that still doesn't mean that it should have happened. real people were affected. that's the part that nobody is really talking about. i mean real single moms who went through their savings in the last 17 days. a lot of people were affected by this while people on capitol

hill made fools of themselves and that's really what they did. >> al, we all -- apologies to the united states they are going to make fools of themselves in a couple of months. >> that was the question he was asked on the way out. you know i was thinking of it last night, it's michael corion -- they are going to pull him back in. i'm very pessimistic about a budget accord. what's going to happen in january -- >> by the way let me speak as the crazy republican for a second. >> you play that role beautifully. >> i do. i want tactics to go along with crazy. republicans aren't going to support tax increases in january or bigger spending in january any more than they would have today. people that don't -- people that

think this is, the crisis is solved it's not. it's just averted. we're not changing -- >> when i looked at that vote it tells me that this is not going away in your party by any means. all the presidential hopefuls in the senate voted against it. guys who are scared of primaries and pat roberts voted against it. this is an issue. i agree with what cokie said this is insanity. >> and this primary issue is really the issue right now. we've talked about it before. but what's happened now is it's become in the ether so you see members of congress, conservative republican woman from north carolina her voting record was to the right of michele bachmann. she got crucified in her district with people say we're going to primary you.

that's become what people shout out. >> it's interesting, cokie i can't remember this ever happening. i remember after the background checks went down 90% approval rating, 92% in north dakota and even in southern states it was in the 80s. people said we'll have to wait until after the primary deadline passes to get something that people want. now we have it with this as well. i don't think i've ever seen it like this. >> it's much stronger than it's ever been. >> that's why things could change before the house vote speaker john boehner was seen walking out of the meeting pumping his fist after being asked if he fought the good fight. he received a stand ovation from the republican caucus for his work throughout the shut down. not everyone was enthusiastic about the outcome. matt drudge tweeted speaker pelosi january 5, 2015. several tore into the gop.

that included jim demint, freedom works came out against the plan say they will punish members who voted yes for the deal. earlier in the day when mitch mckeoconnell was doing the hard work ted cruz was across the hall holding an impromptu news conference where he tried to frame yesterday's turn of events. >> we saw the house of representatives take a courage just stand listen to the american people. that was a remarkable victory to see the house engaging a profile in courage. >> so, jeremy, a lot of people saw ted cruz. what did you expect ted cruz to say. nobody should have been surprised because this was his strategy. you know, ted doesn't care what the "new york times" thinks but for the most part people have

declared this a democratic victory. >> it was a democratic victory. but he basically had to go out and put on a brave face. >> he did. he said as he has said all along as the conservative groups that have been fueling this fight have said all along we're winning. we won. that's part of what i think contributed to an odd dynamic on capitol hill yesterday. here you have the first government shutdown in almost 20 years. and there's a vote to end it. it was almost like anti-climax because we knew exactly how this was going to end a month ago. >> everybody knew and everybody was warning -- >> i'm not sure everybody knew. i'm not sure the "tea parttea p knew. >> i give this lit any that drive people crazy because i talk about myself like charles krauthammer and scott coburn we said this is how it's going to end. part of that, mika, is the fact

that i was talking to one senator yesterday who said you guys with the shutdown have shut down post-traumatic stress disorder. i said we do but guess what? we also know when the next bullet is coming and we saw this one coming. >> so now, michael steele -- >> by the way, can i say i think that's the difference between those that charged the hill yesterday and those of us who were concerned. the big difference is in ideology. just one group charged that hill before. >> so the concern is the money that was wasted, the consternation this created, our credit rating you don't know when you come so close to a default whether or not it will be impacted. there's some ramifications to still be seen, michael steele, and does that make this different? no one can remember seeing anything like this before. and we've got to stop governing by crisis. >> we do. unfortunately that's what we're

setting ourselves up to do come december/january. we'll be back in this exact same circle doing what we do, analyzing and talking about it. there's a certain poison out there in the public. a lot of folks to cokie's opening point felt this deeply. there are moms and dads out there who really struggled over a two week period as most of us don't like admit. we largely live paycheck to paycheck in this country and when you have a moment where that paycheck is taken away even for a brief period, 17 days it has a profound impact. >> on real people. >> i think that carries through to joe's broader point about the parties position here. instead of bringing people through crisis we're creating it for them. instead of leading them to an idea of what a republican leadership really looks like and how that will make a difference we're showing them the under

belly. >> this may -- this will surprise quite a few people but al hunt, i want for a moment stand in defense of ted cruz in this idea that somehow this is all ted cruz's fault. you know what? if a democratic ted cruz had tried this on tip o'neill he would have been squashed like a little bug. if somebody did this to nancy pelosi would have been pounded. it took 72 freshman to do this to newt gingrich. there's a void here of republican leadership in the house that didn't stand up and take charge and take control. >> i don't disagree with you. >> philgr graham was a democrat.

>> last night i'm watching cnn at 7:00 at night by accident. i'm trying to get to the red sox game. i want to see how newt is doing on "crossfire." he's doing pretty well actually. "crossfire" is coming to in an end and i'm waiting for newt to say and then it's ted cruz on the floor and cnn carries him for seven minutes. this is remarkable. a freshman senator is the leader of the republican party. >> times have changed. gingrich had control of that caucus as you know in 1995 and 1996 because he was their leader. there's no such thing as leaders with that tea party caucus. i spoke your colleague yesterday before the vote yesterday.

listen, i just think these people don't worry about leadership among other things leadership doesn't have some of the perks that tip o'neill and others had back then and the senate never had -- i was at breakfast with leon panetta this week and everybody said earmarks, let's get rid of earmarks. but leon panetta made a point 1996 when i got that clinton budget i gave away six bridges. that's not a bad tradeoff. >> i think joe's point is very valid when a vacuum is created in politics like knigit will be filled. when you go into this battle without a clear battle plan, a strategy of what this is going to look like and how we come out

on the other end someone will fill that void and ted cruz filled that void. >> that's because nobody stood up, mika, on the republican side on the house and said that's a horrible idea. we tried that in 1995. we got killed and re-elected bill clinton. it's a horrible idea. >> but the republican congress got re-elected in 1996. >> the majority leader didn't. the leadership should have stood up early on and said that's great for the freshman republican thinks that in the senate. that's cute. we tried pickett's charge and it ended badly. >> i feel it's time for a reference to the 1800s. >> we need to go back to the 1800s. >> let's go back to 1750. >> john mecham what happened in 1887. john mecham, tell us about what happened ned and your take on it. >> any precedent?

>> i was going to bring up hippocites. cokie was about too. if you have a crisis it's supposed to reach a decision. that's the original meaning of the term. you had a crisis, you were sick and you either died or didn't die. we're rolling into a political coma again. to my mind the great question is what lessons did both sides or three sides, the white house, you have the one part of the republican party and then the tea party what lessons did they take away from the last 17, 18 days. it seems to me it's very unclear. is the president taking away the lesson that he stands tough somewhat aloof that create as void. boehnerites figure well if we hang on long enough we can muddle through this. have the tea partiers learned there's a sugar high to these

stands they take yes we say they lost and the "new york times" say they lost but they don't care because they are not functioning in the same political universe. to me that's the great question. what did those three elements learn from this because otherwise we're going to be talking about this in 12 weeks. >> speaking from experience, cokie, the tea partiers learned what we learned in '95 to '96. >> the big question is did they learn it? >> the question i asked every single one of them on the hill yesterday. what did you learn from this. a lot of them were at a loss to explain. they can't answer the most basic question will this happen again. >> they couldn't answer the end game from the beginning. the rest of us knew the end but they didn't know the end. look, here's what -- >> how could they not have known. >> they had no experience. >> there are books on capitol

hill. there are people -- you know, i heard, cokie, i heard a couple of them say we don't want to hear from those guys. it reminded me of george w. bush who didn't want to hear from colin powell as to why he was opposed to the second iraq war. >> the whole world is teenagers. teenagers won't learn from their parents and same sort of idea. who wants to listen to those folks. >> a lot of them are too old to be an old fogey. >> the republican senate, the republicans have a very good chance of taking the senate of which mitch mcconnell is looking at. he wants to be majority leader not minority leader. the republican party took it in the teeth. our abc poll out this week, the disapproval of how they handled it 74% having gone up 11 points

in the course of the shutdown. the president stayed absolutely even. the democrats were at about 60, again not having 60 disapprove, 61. not having changed the needle on them. the republicans, the disapproval just kept going up. how does that work for them when you look at an election. >> one thing, the question of lessons learned is a lot of these members don't have to learn any lesson because the districts they come from are so gerrymandered when they go home they are told they did a great job. that applies to a lot of people running for senate as well because they tell the republican primary voters -- >> those people can't win statewide in those states. >> some can. ken cuccinelli's position who ran a very conservative primary

race. those quotes were outside of the mainstream. but then he comes to the general election and fighting -- >> we talk about an end game. an end game matters. if you care about legislative politics you need an end game. they have an infrastructure that doesn't. they have a club for growth. they are of erick erickson, rush limbaugh. if you went to an evangelical church up in the panhandle or a picnic in des moines i bet people there instead of saying are we chasing will be saying go get them the next time. that's the problem right now. >> so, instead of attaching bombs to ourselves and blowing up their own party republicans could have been capitalizing on the glitch of the roll out on obama care. a consulting firm estimates 36,000 people actually enrolled out of the 9.5 million visitors

to healthercare.gov. that's less than 1%. the analysis also found that traffic to the health care website dropped 88% during the first two weeks. seriously -- >> john meacham -- >> what in if world is wrong. >> about how it wasn't just republicans who were the big losers in this, it was government itself. you look at this sort of roll out and it reinforces the republicans message. you know, polls are never static. these polls are going move to. continued focus on this roll out, if it's this messy, it damages, i think, the political viability of it, moving forward totally. >> yes the republican party screwed this up. but right now nobody is coming out of this looking great. my favorite poll in recent months, there's a gallup poll

out that says the american people no longer trust the american people. i wish i was making this up. nobody trusts anybody. so, you know, barnacle is on the executer, trolling and screwing up the health care thing. you have that issue. the other thing that i think is different than 20 years ago or 18 years ago is elections tended to matter, seemed to matter more then. in clinton wins in '92, generational shift. we have 1994, the reaction to the seeming liberal overreach of those first two years. joe, your class and speaker gingrich get chance, get a national chance to make a stand in '95. in '96 we had an election. clinton won. and that mattered. '94 mattered. '96 mattered. it has not been one year since

barack obama was re-elected as president of the united states. don't worry about mandate how about relevance. i think it's a remarkable thing. it's cyclical. what do you all think about the fact we go to the country and these elections don't seem to resonate much past the election date. >> john, what would you say to the republicans yesterday were saying exactly this is what madison wanted, he wanted a divided government, he wanted checks on an imperial president. >> i think that's absolutely right. madison wanted a system where no extremist element could triumph over any other. that's absolutely right. the other thing we know and madison is a war time president knew this is that political leadership matters and you have to be able to build a majority to move a country from point a to point b. >> can i really bring up one

other thing really quickly here just at the end of this entire segment about the fact that you were talking about the ebb and flow of american politics. think about the fact in 2008, really you have to start with george w. bush in 2004, 2005, 2006 through 2008, 2009, 2010. i wrote a book about 2004 and again in 2009. the most explosive growth of federal government in the history of this country. the largest debt ever. the largest deficits ever. that was over six, seven years under a republican and then for a year and a half under a democrat it ends with this health care plan that the president had to get with only democrats. i wonder if madison might say okay after five or six years of out of control spending and massive growth of national debt, two, three years later this is a

natural reaction to that spending, john. >> indeed. they are not winning national elections, and so there's difference. electing a democrat president over a republican one is not quite consistent with that view. >> built they are also electing the branch that controls the checkbook. >> true. >> republicans. >> but they didn't elect a republican senate in a year when they should have by looking at the seats that were up. and that's partly because of the candidates the republicans nominated and about to put themselves in exactly the same box again. >> it's an eerie echo here.

the republican party said we need to stop talking to ourselves and stop being exclusionary and they were supposed to learn these lessons. do they take those lessons -- >> let me now take the other side. this is a vote that could have passed the house on october 1. this is a fact because he's so intimidated by that caucus. the contrast to thomas o'neill don't bring up the republican agenda we control the house and reagan said elections have consequences. they brought up and lost and came back and fought it again. it's inexplicable to me why the house doesn't vote. there's nothing wrong with a vote. >> john meacham, thank you very much. john's book," thomas jefferson the art of power" is coming out

this month in paper back. that way you can take to it the beach. >> if you love the 1800s this, it is. >> coming up on morning joerks we'll talk to senators chuck schumer and john mccain living the dream about the last minute debt deal plus a pair of cable news exclusive former governor jeb bush joins the discussion and fresh off his big win in new jersey senator-elect cory booker will be with us. mike allen is here on the set. >> at an exclusive. >> very exclusive. very unique. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. mike rowe here at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event?

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. 29 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. you want to do that one first. "usa today" police say the baggage handler who was arrested after the dry ice bombings los angeles airport planned it as a prank because he thought it was bennett. they don't believe he has any terrorism or gang-related ties. "the washington post," jpmorgan chase will pay $100 million in penalty fines related to the case known as the london whale. it cost the bank $6 billion. the total cost has now reached $1 billion. the bank will admit reckless conduct. a victory for mark cuban.

the jury cleared the owner of the dallas mavericks of insider trading. he was accused of acting on a tip and selling millions in stock to avoid a massive loss on mama.com. >> who is going to invest in mama.com. >> exactly. >> "l.a. times" facebook is drawing criticism for laxing its privacy policy. it used to limit who could see post of teens under 18 but now younger users can change their settings themselves. some say it's a ploy to remain relevant like other networks twitter eats away at facebook's dominance. >> nook times, amazing amateur videos captured the moment a

meteorite exploded in russia. scientists say they have recovered a piece of that meteorite. divers pulled a chunk the size of a coffee table from the bottom of a russian lake but it fractured into three pieces after it was pulled up. a scale showed 1260 pounds before it broke. then we have politico. >> politico. mike allen is here. let's just go. cokie roberts. >> i didn't know it was there. >> read it, cokie. you won't be happy. this is awful. they drag you through the mud. >> how could do you that to cokie? it's cokie roberts. >> she wrote a piece talking about -- >> kay hutchison who is a former senator from texas. yesterday houston's chronicle said ted cruz who act like kay

hutchison. >> the endorsement of ted cruz. senator hutchison in this piece talks about we know about cokie roberts on air contributions. she also talks about your writing and you talk here about some of the research and one of the greatest titles of myster mystery, "founding mothers." >> i like the 1800s too. i tried to tell you what the other half of the population was doing in the 1800s. >> the other 51%. >> now i'm working on civil war here in washington. we'll find out about those women too. >> look forward to that. >> mitch mcconnell is in politico. tell us about it. >> he is. this is the eruption of what mr. hunt called the we'll get them next time. this republican group going after mitch mcconnell for

remember during obama care cornhusker kick back, gatorade the louisiana purchase >> you're building it up. et cetera the kentucky kick back. >> so this is the senator conservative fund going after mitch mcconnell for a dam line in the bill, $2 billion to authorize funding for a dam that borders kentucky. >> are you serious? there a dallas 2 billion dam project in this cr? >> it's an authorization. and the white house is for it. the subcommittee on appropriations which does dams is for it. mcconnell has been for it in the past. but these republican groups this tea party group is saying this

is an example of how mitch mcconnell still doesn't get it. >> of course they are saying he basically got a dam, he traded it for obama care. >> oh, my god. >> it's untrue, it's unfair but it's lethal. >> is there any evidence at all that mitch mcconnell put this in or his staff put this in? we know how this work. >> he's clearly for it. when the white house is for it and when republican senators on the appropriations on the committee are for it but nobody's fingerprints are on it. >> it's going to be jobs in kentucky. it will be jobs in kentucky and saying you have to re-elect me because i got seniority to bring jobs to kentucky. that's not a bad thing. >> the republican primary is a lot of those folks are angry about just that type of washington behavior and, yeah, this is going to be a small problem for him and you got the men already riding that horse

out of the stalls. >> it was reported he didn't ask for it. >> she will be on later. >> great thing about washington you never have to ask for anything. sometimes your friends do. >> you would be shocked how many thing i did not ask for. >> oh, wow. >> politico's mike allen, thank you. still ahead this morning, senator tim kaine of virginia joins us. chris matthews and chuck todd. up next they missed the opportunity, missed opportunity may wind up being the biggest play in the alcs, the huge rally that followed dustin pedroia's play ball. sports is next.

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so, you know, mika, i'm a red sox fan. i went up to the games. like staying up -- >> crazy. >> i pick brian shactman the correct night to take off last night.

i was sick. i get a 4:00 a.m. wake up call. i see the first inning i'll be up all night. boy i'm glad i slept through it. it was ugly. >> another game tonight and then we'll have a deciding game for either team on saturday. so we'll know pretty quickly who is going to the world series. let's look at game four of alcs. sox, tigers, second inning a hit is walked in. dustin pedroia booted that. cost him a double play and opened the floodgates. they scored five runs, joe in the second inning. jim leyland mixed the line-up. torii hunter and then the sox didn't have any life. joe, i don't know about you. they deserve to win if they hit some of the starting pitching. they can't hit anybody for

detroit. they lose this one 7-3. they got a couple in garbage time and now it's 2-2. >> you have those top three pitchers coming right back at them that shut them down. one hit in 15 innings through the first two games. doesn't get easier. tigers keep coming at you. no doubt the best starting rotation in the playoffs this year. >> it's a little bit different story with the los angeles dodgers face elimination against the cardinals. i want to show you guys first will farrell promoting "anchorman 2." >> batting fourth at first base number 23 adrian "ayayay" gonzalez. batting sixth in right field number 6 he said the chucabra is

real. batting seventh at third number five he absolutely loves katy perry, areba. >> oh, my god. >> he has a nice flat rim hat. let's go to the game. adrian gonzalez up at the plate. >> fly ball right field and there is the first dodger home run of this series. >> that third inning solo shot the first of a whole bunch of home runs. how about another red sox, carl crawford. he goes deep. he's in the amazing playoffs, fifth a.j. ellis sends one out in the seventh, gonzalez had another one in the eighth and had some pitching from zack greinke hang on 6-4.

still trail in the series 3-2. i want to see a sox/dodgers world series. >> i want to see a sox anybody world series. >> brian thank you. up next reporters who tracked the debt fight every step of the way. robert costa and casey hunt join us for the must read opinion pages. thrusters at 30%! i can't get her to warp.

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it's no wonder the world can't wait to see what kohler does next. all right. a live look at capitol hill. government is up and running today. here with us now washington editor for national review robert costa and nbc news correspondent kasie hunt who has

been following this wasry step of the way. we have one must read. it's a very run on sentence but it kind of encapsulates everything. the result of the approach first championed by senators ted cruz, mike lee, rand paul and marco rubio and embraced by a significant number of house republicans resulted in a no substantive changes to the affordable care act, b, an increase, c, diverting attention away from the epically incompetent roll out of the new health care exchanges, d, the gop's popularity dropping to the lowest point for either party since gallup began asking the question in 1992, e, more than washing away. f, reviving the obama presidency which until the shutdown of drifting and suffering a terrible year and g, setback gop

prospects in the 2014 mid-term elections apart from that it was a huge success. >> what's your feeling among the house republicans. >> last night was a fascinating night because a lot of these republicans were elected in 2010. after this whole thing went down, for the first time they grappled with a divided government and expectations they should have. i haven't seen that kind of thinking about the path ahead what a majority can achieve when the senate is controlled by democrats. >> that's so stunning. that's the lesson we learned after bill clinton beat our brains in after the government shutdown and we sat around there and oh, my god we're not the only people in washington. it's unbelievable. were there any people warning them inside that caucus? >> no. that's the surprising story. >> nobody said hey guys listen. >> i think the leadership strategy was an interesting one.

for a long time throughout this whole process they let it all unfold and they wanted the members to see what happened when you push it to the brink. so now boehner getting the applause at current yesterday was really an acceptance by the conference that boehner was partly right. that they could really get a lot of achievements. >> that was his strategy to let them see they didn't have the votes. it was very painful and i think it's probably in the long run a disaster for the party but that was the strategy. >> all right. kasie, you have been covering this every step of the way. anything stand out here especially among this republican group that doesn't seem to understand where the rest of the world was. do they see it today? >> there's no evidence that they do see it at this point. ted cruz was as defiant as ever yesterday. he can't seem to answer a straight yes or no question when you put him a question you hear his filibuster of exactly, you

know, his view of the world and it's something at this point the republican conference in the senate has just had enough of. mike lee is literally his only friend and the two stand together on the back of the senate floor and don't circulate with others. the most interesting thing is mitch mcconnell. you were talking earlier about this potential kentucky kick back. there's some question about whether or not he asked for it. >> maybe he just winked. >> wink and a nod. it's a dam project -- first authorized in 1988. it's critical for commerce but going on for decades and hugely cost overrun. they choose to go after him for it it could be a huge boondoggle. i talked to some aides last night and they declined to go after him for it. it's difficult to attack a project that helps people that you're trying to get jobs. >> mcconnell's whole goal was to

protect sequestration. it was not defund or delay it was to protect cuts so he could make trades later on. >> what's happening next? again, in january, again, i was saying earlier -- it's not like republicans are going to move forward. >> try something with the budget conference. can he trade sequestration for cpi. can something be brokered before this happens in january. >> they have to have revenues and that's the killer. patty murray will not trade sequester for entitlements that's not an even trade in democrats view. >> it's 6:52 on october 17th. can i say the same thing right now that i was saying at the beginning of this strategy when i said it was going to end just like this. democrats are not going to get new revenue. >> and republicans are not going to get entitlements for sequester. won't happen. >> okay. take a vacation. >> the only difference next time

around is that the year will be 2014. and that will get people's attention. >> that's true. >> there are a lot of democrats running in red states in 2014 that will tell the president why downtown raise taxes. >> but, joe, how many republicans are out saying let's cut medicare and social security. i haven't seen very many. >> they are not. you know why, al because we don't want to cut social security and medicare, we want to save it. we'll be right back. coming up in the next hour -- >> with all the chaos on capitol hill we'll ask senator-elect cory booker why does he want to go to washington. and former governor jeb bush with his take on what's going on right now in d.c. keep it right here on "morning joe". the american dream is of a better future, a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die.

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so, kasie, what's next in this budget process >> we'll see a huge fight over the sequester. democrats think they can take a stand on. this budget conference coming out in december. there's an additional round of cuts that's supposed to come in to effect in january. they are mostly defense cuts. that's going to give democrats a little bit of an edge. people like mccain and graham.

>> what's next for ted cruz. what's his standing like right now? >> standing on the right his political brand among conservatives could not be better. he's the hottest conservative politician in the country. when it comes to relationships in the senate he special needs to do some repair work. >> what about the house? >> he'll continue to be a leader. he's the guy who is helping to run the conservatives. >> if you have your secret meeting as tortilla coast. >> chris matthews and chuck todd standing by. our political roundtable is next when "morning joe" comes right back. in 1971. afghanistan in 2009. on the u.s.s. saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families

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♪ i knew how this was going to end. we said it on the air how it was going to end. >> how will it end. >> what we've been saying for the past several weeks. some people in my party took the stupid pill. they came up with a terrible strategy. we all said they were going to lose, didn't we? we all said it. charles krauthammer. scott walker said it. everybody. we all said it. >> willie geist. >> so guess what? they are going to lose. so guess what they will do before the government defaults they will cave-in and look horrible. i'm sorry i don't know how these baseball series will end but i know how this will end. they won't default on the credit

of the united states. >> and that was 25 hours ago. welcome back to "morning joe." >> i was catching grief. why were you watching a baseball game instead of the debate. because i don't know how the baseball game will end. >> cokie roberts is still with us. joining us on set bob woodward. >> he was caught rummaging through mike allen's iphone. >> that and also it's kind of -- it's very hot. >> what? >> he brought texts to read. >> texts. >> you are so old school, man. >> look at this. >> old school. >> because -- >> you rummaged through mike allen's iphone. >> we never like to be secretive. 11 months ago after obama won re-election, i met in the white

house with boehner and obama said the following, the episode from 2011, the debt ceiling fight was the worst. i will not sign anything that does not have a debt limit increase. then boehner said, everything has its price and i'm going to use the debt limit to extract things out of you that i would not otherwise get. in other words, he laid the blackmail line down. of course he meant spending cuts not obama care. so unintended consequences. >> fantastic. >> from the notes. >> economic analyst steve rattner is here with us and political director and host of the daily rundown chuck todd is with us here in washington and in new york host of msnbc's "hardball." wait a minute. this makes no sense. chris matthews is there and we're here.

he's the author of "tip and the gipper." also in new york democratic senator from new york senator chuck schumer. so we have quite a group. >> caught the shuttle last night. >> let's get moving. we'll start with you chris matthews. chris, score it for us. how did it end up politically. >> in 25 seconds or less. >> i think it's about tactics not philosophy or health care. i think the tactics of the right the hard right really failed. their quest here for greatness. people didn't like the tactics. i think we'll still argue about spending and we should. we'll argue about policy and health care as we should and that will continue. the tactic of basically stopping the government for your own political points and then risking in fact hurting our standing in the world economically that's a big price to pay. i don't think the ends justify the means. >> chuck todd i've been very tough on ted cruz every day but it's over.

looking back on it ted cruz again, first of all, he didn't have anybody pushing back on him within the party. they were afraid to. secondly, ted cruz is a freshman. he'll be the first to say this is the first political office identify held since student government. >> i don't think he would say it that way. >> no. but what i'm saying is he is learning politics right now, and the difference between ted cruz and a lot of these other guys that have been through this before, we've been through this before. i think this is a learning lesson for everybody. >> no doubt. political muscle memory here could be something we'll find out in three months whether it has impact, whether it sticks. >> i'm not going say it makes you more moderate but makes you smarter. >> remember rick santorum when he got to the senate and he wasn't playing by the rules and

he was a little for tea 90s he was thought of as bombastic and not following senator. >> going after mark hatfield who was on iwo jima when he was a kid. >> but rick santorum will tell you he did moderate his ideology. he moderated his tactics and temperament. >> in '95 and '96 and very embarrassed by it, i didn't moderate my ideology, but you learn. you get blind sided one or two times bob woodward and you learn to see where the punches are coming from and you do your best. >> that's right. but you're in a very small boat. and you got to -- what boehner said at the beginning of this, boehner started it by saying i'm going extract things out of you. and so you lay the predicate and somebody like cruz comes along

and says oh, let's do obama care. boehner didn't be intend that. boehner is obsessed with cutting spending. so, you know, in a sense you get the ball rolling when you go to a meeting at the white house and you say, mr. president, i'm going to extract things out of you that i would not otherwise get. >> but the irony is had they not made it about health care the president would have been there, they would have had conversations. >> one of the platforms the of the republican party is they don't like government waste. how much did we waste in this process, steve rattner and what are some of the other ramifications that still could happen given the fact that we came so close to the deadline? >> a bunch of ramifications. s&p came out yesterday and said this cost $24 bill thrown the economy, something like .6% to the gdp. we could have done a whole big

boston bill. you have all that. enormous uncertainty on the part of business and consumer. consumer confidence hit a nine month low during this process and people are pulling back, you talk to the car companies they say sales are soft. there's an enormous cost to the economy. going forward we have continuing budget battle. it's not just a budget battle between the democrats and republicans. there's still a budget battle inside the republican party. the ryan budget that got passed called for $6 trillion of spending cuts over the next ten years. it calls for repealing obama care. it calls for voucherizing medicare. and the chairman of the propositions committee has not passed a single propositions bill because he says he can't fit spending inside the box paul ryan created. i don't think any have passed. >> i thought i read harry reid passed four. >> most importantly the

transportation -- >> don't know if i made that clear. >> my mic is on, harry reid passed zero propositions. >> the transportation housing urban development bill one of the most important bills could not pass the house last summer because it was too draconian. >> let's go chuck schumer for a couple of things. for somebody who flies out of jfk and laguardia mitch mcconnell was able to slip in a dam project. secondly you said one of the nastiest things to mitch mcconnell yesterday by praising him and calling him your good friend. are you trying to get this guy primaried. >> he deserved it. he's a profile in courage. he has more political pressure on him than john borne. once he realized he didn't rush to front. once he realized the house was tied in a knot his responsibility in the senate as

an institution and more importantly to the country came to the fore. identify talked to mitch about this. i think the whole republican senate is different now. i don't think ted cruz will recover so quickly. i think the tea party, frankly, joe, the tea party and ted cruz have peaked. this so alienated their colleagues. but secondly the tactics of the tea party i'll hurt a lot of innocent people unless i get my way. it was the first time in the spotlight that the american people saw they didn't like it. the republican party has learned a lesson here. i think you're going to see a more mainstream conservative republican party. i don't think we'll have the same kind of brinksmanship on january 15th and february 7th. >> chris, what was the point where tip, when you go in your book and i remember reading it was it after that first budget vote where tip lost sommore

democrats than he thought that reagan had more success in getting democrats in the house to support him? is that when the dynamics changed between tip and reagan and is there something to be learned there? what do you expect to see out of how the republicans, you know, is there a lesson to be applied here to how the republicans sort of tacked after this? >> i keep going -- i got up this morning trying to think if there's something important to learn all of this. the word respect keeps coming in my head. respect for the voters. respect for how they make decisions. respect for the other side's point of view and most important for the other guy's office women's office and the schedules and how the place should be run. there was a total lack of respect for the people in this fight. my brother wanted to go out to the west to visit the monuments they shut it down. is this way people are treated. we shut it down if we want to make a point.

the end justifies a means. i'm trying to be bipartisan. bugs me back in '94, '95 they used the white house as a motel 6. you have to be respectful of this government and it's institutions. this crowd, it's tactics. i want my way. the hell with you guys. the whel you public. the hell with our financial standing in the world. i want to make my point. that's what kids do when they are in second grade. they need to grow up. you have an oath of office to this government. they are actually officers of this government. the speaker is. we keep forgetting they are employees of the state. they work for us. not just politicians free basing out there and having a time out there. anyway i think we're not out of the woods and back in it in three months. i heard sean hannity say last night we'll start this again. >> the hard right won't change. you listen to ted cruz's speech he's in his own world.

he thinks the american people are behind him. what will change are main stream conservatives because they were afraid of primaries, the energy of the republican party is in the tea party, they went along. i think this was in a certain sense a rubicon. they won't go along any longer as easily as they did and cruz and the tea party have peaked. i have seen it in the question. will there be that courage in the house? >> they are supposed to get something done and the question for panel we'll start with cokie, what did the republicans get? the dale's only provision requires hhs to provide requirements. be republicans sense they could have capitalized just a tad bit more on obama care's glitchy roll out here are some new numbers that show few people

actually have ye lly have enrol. only 36,000 people actually enrolled out of 9.5 million visitors to healthercare.gov. that's less than 1%. the analysis also found that traffic to the health care website dropped 88% during the first two weeks. have you ever seen such a huge missed opportunity politically? >> no. this is -- this is -- look at politico today. two weeks in, site still broken. that would be the headline instead of house gop throws in the towel. there you are. they blew it. >> they just needed to sit back, bob, and wait for to it happen. >> obviously. blackmail doesn't work. i think you need to look at the other side of this and the real winner is president obama. he comes out as the guy who wouldn't budge.

people say obama is not tough enough. this time he showed a real toughness and i think that not just has to do with washington but spills out abroad in the world. a lot of world leaders saying he's really not strong, he's tough. >> six weeks ago boy did they bungle syria and the handling of syria. you had democrats both quietly and publicly. so when you say -- he was teetering on that whole lame duck thing. when does it start. it was this oh, no, you know, in the white house teetering on the edge and then he laid down a red line. >> so steve rattner, publicly we're not going to back down. we can say this now we won't say exactly who we talked to.

we talked to somebody up very high in the white house. they called us over. yeah. what are we going to talk about. i thought it was going to be some, something about obama care, something else. this was their message. president is not going to budge. i said okay. no. the president is not going the budge. i said you never know how these things go. '95, '96 and they said we just want to you know, say what you want to say every day, the president is not going to budge. i said fine. well thanks for the message. wasn't that basically the message. >> the question, though, is how will we use that strength? and because we're going into in the next couple of months another round of all of this crap. >> that's the problem here. the president can play defense. steve, the president is great on defense. offense is going to be pretty tough. we'll get chuck schumer next. offense is tough for him if say he moves to an immigration bill. >> first one of the good things

for the country out of all this the debt ceiling is now off the table as a political tool at least for a long time. politicians found out the american people understand default and the concept of default and they don't want to see it happen. still be fights over the deficit, fights over government shutdown and i do agree with you. i think it's still going to be hard for the president in such a divided congress to get his agenda through. it's a very tough place to get a law passed. >> chuck schumer what will the president get? >> i think the thing he wants to get more than anything else we won't have a fight over debt ceiling sim integration. the good news for us on immigration is unlike obama care where just about every republican hated it even those who disagreed with the tactics you have a large percent jack of the republican party the economic conservatives for immigration reform even people like the koch brothers. so there's a real chance to do immigration reform. you have people like erick cantor and paul ryan who are economic conservatives who want to do it. i think that will be his thrust.

>> chris matthews a lot of us have been critical of the president from syria back saying that the guy is not a strong enough negotiator, he doesn't know how to play the game in washington. he sure knew how to play this game. >> a lot of it had to do with his situation. one of those old movies where the guy slaps the guy with his glove. you insult the guy first. we'll take your baby not the money we're going take your baby give it to us. he had to fight this one. he had to fight every inch. they gave away on his verification for income and means testing. i think that was a stupid decision. >> verification is the same as before. backing up what you said. every time i saw the president, must have been ten times during this fight you could tell he was a different man with his body language and what he said. he made up a strategy just as he told you, joe when he started.

he never in previous times well, maybe we should compromise a little here. didn't budge once. when some people wanted to do medical device tax he said absolutely not. >> can i say one thing about this guy here about chuck schumer. all through the immigration fight which is coming, there's always the question will it work or another one like 20 years ago. this is one of the three guys, lindsey graham and the lit ted kennedy who i trust on immigration because he knows it needs be truly comprehensive, true enforcements, illegal hiring in this country not the bs and usual interest group stuff but a sound bill proud to enforce as progressive americans. it's a great thing if we have a true immigration policy we're proud of and i believe in this guy. so few other politicians are trustworthy with this baby. >> cokie roberts, as we end this segment, part of the problem is chris matthews said it's his

baby. they were asking for his baby. the fact is if it had been budget there would have been more of a debate. this was like going after lyndon johnson's great society or ronald reagan agencies tax fight. there's a lot of things people can give up. >> look at his first term. what was his only real accomplishment in that first term? >> look at the second term. what's the accomplishment in the second term. >> to give up his only really big accomplishment as president of the united states that is something that he was not going to do. >> was not going to do. >> chuck todd, the dodgers, what a game last night. >> isn't i want great? when you win an elimination game. every pitch. >> senator chuck schumer thank you very much. cokie roberts, thank you as well. chris, we'll be watching "hardball" tonight at 7:00 p.m. great to have you on. >> of course while we watch

we'll be reading his great new book. >> chuck, bob and steve stay with us if you can. up next they say everything is bigger in texas and we're not just talking about ted cruz's ambitions. why "time" magazine calls the lonestar state america's future. and meet new jersey's next u.s. senator. cory booker joins us live for a "morning joe" exclusive. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ girl ] roses are red. violets are blue. splenda® is sweet. and so are you.

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i'm hoping god will be with him in the decisions he makes as he goes into the u.s. senate in washington, d.c. and i said to myself, who wants that job anyway. [ laughter ] >> well that's a good question and we'll ask him, joining us now fresh off his win last night in new jersey, special election,

senator-elect and newark mayor cory booker. congratulations. >> thank you so much. great to be back on. >> i know. where have you been? >> we know where he's been. >> finally he's here. actually i know it's a bittersweet time for you. so we're glad to have you back on the show. and i actually want to take that question seriously. why would you want to go to washington. what do you think you can accomplish given the state of affairs there? >> there's tremendous challenges and nobody should be under an illusion about one person making a difference. i find it eerily familiar what people said to me now because it was said to me 15 years ago in newark what can dourks how can you make the difference, the problems are too big. yet we're joining a lot of folks on common coalitions, democrats, republicans, activists of all types and we made a lot of progress in our city. look, this country, i think everybody feels this fatigue and

frustration with how things are, which creates a great climate for change. i mean, before you could have great victory often you have to have great frustration. >> chuck todd, how do you stem the tide of government by crisis? >> i think in this day and age of media. i don't know. i wonder about the expectation now of that everything is supposedly the most important moment in the history of mankind. there's this attitude now. but, senator-elect, i remember having some conversations with you when you were first starting to run, and the one part of the u.s. senate and your political career that don't seem to mesh, you were able to immediately do stuff as mayor. immediately go find, you know, whether it's go find somebody at

facebook to help in the schools or go deal with a crisis that you could find a way to fund money for. in the u.s. senate as you know, it is an antiquated system to say the least and to effect change is hard. it's not easy. what tool in the u.s. senate do you think you can use most effectively to sort of change the mindset of the senate that it's not a place to get things done quickly. >> first of all, there's things we can start doing today. i'm a scrapper. as i was traveling to these cities, i saw that many of the great leaders there needed some of the innovations we were doing in newark that involved private/public partnerships. there are actually things as a statewide, the gift i got yesterday from the people that i can bring innovation and resourcefulness all around the state right now. that's what we got to start

thinking about, being entrepreneurial from the positions we hold. when i talk to other senators and there's a lot of good people. i know the senate's approval rating has gone down. identify been awed by a lot of people down there their passion and love of service. >> just so you know every former mayor and former governor that's a u.s. senator expresses quiet frustration about the place. >> i was told by some folks who did the research i'm number 21, only 20 before me american mayors in the history of our country ever gone on to the united states cincinnati. i look forward to bringing that mayoral attitude to washington. i didn't have the luxury of fighting right or left. i just wanted to move forward, move the city forward with a sense of urgency. so i hope to bring my experiences and join with other servants of our country and their unique experiences and see what we can do together. i'm not going to be done there

yet. i have a little bit of time here in new jersey. we have a big ballot initiative coming up to raise the minimum wage. at the end of the day i'm a servant of the state now. and every single day will present me with opportunities to make a difference whether an individual's lives, being creative with another leader around our state in d.c. working with other people. every day, every american citizen can do something to make things better. >> let me get steve rattner here. final question. >> cory, i know you're not a senator but for a second put on the president's hat. we talked in the last block whether he can move on from this, get immigration done, there will be a budget fight coming up. if you were sitting in the president's chair how could he get something done? >> i'm not sitting in the president's chair, i'm not even sitting in the senator's chair. i got a lot to learn. i'm going to go down there and do everything i can as a junior senator from new jersey.

lern from people like senator menendez and other find out what a senator from new jersey can do to drive things forward. i appreciate the president has a complicated set of problems. he left an yern couraging message on my voice mail late last night after-month. before i start uppontificating what the president should do i'm focused on what cory booker can do. >> thank you very much. congratulations. >> thanks everybody. thank you so much. >> with us here on set in washington managing editor of "time" magazine nancy gibbs. she's here to review the latest issue of "time" magazine and it has to do with the lonestar state. >> it does. this is the big political story of our time which is how people swroet their feet. we wanted to know why is texas the fastest growing state in the country, why are three of the fastest growing cities in texas. how is it that this state has only 8% of the population and

has created almost a third of the highest paying jobs in the united states right now. so there's something important happening there. >> what is it? >> i think we need to study. the economist is tyler cohen and he says at a time when the middle class is hollowed out people have to lower their expectations if they want to raise their standard of living. you go to texas, the taxes are low, the cost of living is low, housing prices are low. yes you pay a price for that in the services, in the schools, in things you're willing to give up but people are willing to make that deal and that's one reason that it's the fastest growing state. so what we're saying is this is what america's future looks like at a time when this rise in income equality is one of the most -- >> there's another factor as i'm sure your piece covers which is that texas is a huge beneficiary of the energy boom and makes life easier when your principal industry is growing a puddly,

throwing off unbelievable amounts of income. i get the lack of regulation. you go to houston there's no zoning in houston. one of the strangest cities i've ever been in. rick perry was playing with a card not many governors have to play with. >> that's created the jobs and lowered prices but this was also happening before the energy boom really took off and it's happening in other states as aren't as beneficiaries. >> you're moving to texas? >> sure. >> you have some other good pieces, kathleen parker has a piece, our growing obsession with self-tracking, object securing the deeper meaning of our lives. >> you have your fit bit, keep track of every step you take. >> no, i don't. i've met people who do. and you can, you can literally know like every step.

i don't want to know. >> well i think it changes the way we think about ourselves. it introduces a level of self-awareness -- >> that's obsessive. >> you could say that. >> nsa has all of this data. all your emails. your address books and so forth. i wonder if you can petition them to say i need to know whether that e-mail actually got sent out 18 months ago. >> i don't want to know how little i'm walking, how much i'm sitting. >> don't want to know how much i'm not sleeping. so there you go. also the last politician 20 women in the senate cutting deals. good pieces. cover of "time" magazine is the united states of texas, nancy gibbs thank you very, very much. bob woodward thank you as well. and still ahead, cnbc's eamon javers explains how the markets are dealing with those self-induced crises in congress.

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cory booker wins in new jersey. the republicans are in washington, d.c. 24% approval rating. this is a party that's complete utter destruction from coast to coast. for instance look what else is happening in new jersey with chris christie's poll. wait a second. wait a second. maybe republicans outside washington are doing a little better than republicans inside washington. >> take a cue from governors. a new quinnipiac poll shows governor chris christie holding on to a commanding lead. >> rhino. rhino. only a rhino gets to 62% approval rating in a blue state. >> overall christie leads buono.

>> there's a huge gender gap. chris christie is getting slaughtered because he's pro life. wait first pro life governor since roe v wade in new jersey is plus 20 with women. >> i think since he's winning his party should do what they do and that is shun him. >> i don't think it's working. chris christie is here to stay. 71% approval rating among independents. chuck todd you got the washington republicans and then you got republicans outside. >> i mean what, everybodyen a, republican governor is smiling. they can differentiate themselves so easily. it's interesting to watch christie. some want to compare him to bush in '98. the atmosphere is the same. bush was coming in, going what

are all these guys doing in washington. right? bush was winning by huge numbers as somehow the house republicans were trying to impeach the president over a personal affair. and the disconnect there and he was able to sort of rescue the party after that saying you know i'm not one of them. even at the time almost ran against them in some ways. you see there's this same opportunity here for christie. >> up next he's on the short list of potential presidential candidates but would he even want the job? >> i don't think so. >> former governor jeb bush joins us. >> he's more of a thinker for a "morning joe" exclusive. we'll talk about the dysfunction in government plus his ongoing push to get america's education system back up to speed. we'll be right back. [ banker ] sydney needed some financial guidance

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so, beautiful shot of washington, d.c. so mika, yesterday after the deal came down i tweeted same as it ever was. and i'm reminded, you know, we're talking this morning about how great republican governors are doing outside of washington. they are embarrassed to be standing with people inside washington. 1998, 1999, i say hi they run in the other direction. whoa. he was guesting things done like guys -- he's in boston now former republican governor of florida, jeb bush, chairman of the foundation for excellence in education. jeb i was hurt when you got a restraining order in northwest florida. i could not be seen with you in public. it was kind of sad. >> it's nice that you're out of

the witness protection program, joe. >> it really is. so you and your organization take up a summit right now on education. we're going to talk to you about that in one minute. but talk about how the republican party isn't always defined by what goes on inside this city, that as it was when you were governor it is today governors are actually getting things done by working with democrats, and actually looking for solutions instead of cheap shots. >> i think republicans win when we focus on economic growth that creates jobs and reforming how government works. so that more people have a chance to pursue their dreams as they see fifth. that's our message, that's the winning message and governors across the country whether it's scott walker, bobby jindal -- there's 30 republican governors, i think all of them probably will get re-elected and it's because they are focused on those issues not on overreaching

or trying to say well we have one half of 1/3 of the power of washington therefore we have three quarters of the ability to get things done. >> oh, boy. wow. >> that's more math than i can figure out. >> governor, one of the things that the education community is dealing with is sort of tea party style challenge to the concept on this idea of the common core. which i know you're familiar with. i say it's a tea party style challenge because what i've noticed on a local level this is a political hot potato and it was something frankly i'm guessing leaders in the education community this was started by the national governors association came out of the covers bipartisan idea, what's going on here and is this politicizing the common core something that we should get used to and now education policy

is going to go, is going to be confrontational in the same way we just saw in washington? >> well, it's a healthy concern about the overreach of the federal government. but i think it might be a little misguided in the sense that as you said 45 governors and state school officers voluntarily came together to create these standards which all but a handful of people require critical thinking skills and at the end match college readiness or career readiness which is the objective. for high school graduates today only 25% of them pass the all four of the test, the a.c.t. tests that define college readiness. that's not acceptable. so those who are concerned should be concerned about the mediocre dumb down standards we have now. >> why do you think it's the tea party crowd leading this fight against common core?

>> because first of all, in the state of the union address the president said basically said i created a national curriculum. those were his words. that's not what this is. these are national standards that are voluntarily created. the curriculum will be created just as it always has at the local level. people hearing that get concern. no one wants a national curriculum. that's the last thing america needs. >> jeremy peters here, governor. if you look at the last few weeks the republican party has been basically caught in a really difficult spot, defending itself, trying to explain to the american public, you know, why it's not tearing itself limb from limb. going forward into 2014 and 2016, how does the party recapture the national stage in a way that isn't always so focused on its self-inflicted wounds? >> i think to refocus where our

strengths are which are outside of washington. a majority of the governors are republican. most of the officers at the state level of republican. we win when we focus on a positive agenda. we lose when we react to what goes on in washington. there a lot of great people. remember in 2010, the greatest wave election since the 1930s, republicans won in reaction to washington. we can't be against what's in front of washington, d.c. much of what goes on in washington is completely irrelevant to the lives of evident people. i watched your show. you guys beat a baby seal with a rock. you clubbed this thing over and over again. >> let me say i think it's sad

that you watch this show every day to see a baby seal beat against a rock. what kind of sicko are you? i watch it every day. that's next. still ahead. >> that was actually pretty good. >> that was good. >> yesterday mainly after all of the drama has subsided in washington, the president leaves with immigration. we are going to start with our immigration strategy going forward. then right on the heels of that, the congressman said going off of what you just said about how things resonate inside washington versus outside washington, there is this

palpable idea of what's being done. >> i would hope that immigration would be a tough priority into september. we had the debacle in syria and the debate about shutting down the government. the interview has been taken out and i hope the leadership in the house brings it back and creates an alternative that a majority can support. the immigration system is broken. it doesn't work. we have a chance to fix this to allow us to grow again economically. to rebuild the pyramid and reenergize our country in many ways to restart the entrepreneurial wave that is part of our recovery. all of this can happen if we had an economically driven immigration system. that's a conservative idea and i think it ought to be passed. this will be interesting. maybe washington ought to pass

the law through the normal regular order and see if it works. >> what are you talking about? >> that's crazy. >> i'm sorry. >> then you will die. >> that's fantastic. former governor jeb bush. >> i have to ask what's going on after they watch eight hours of debate. what's going on in the summit today? >> we have two days, ted olsson is speaking, condoleezza rice, rahm emmanuel. michael gogh, a lot of ideas about how to take ideas and convert them to reality. how do you create an environment of reform in 50 states which is where we represented. we have 150 people and it's kind of cool. it's bipartisan and people are

interested in the idea that we can learn. >> we love what you are doing. former governor jeb bush. >> thank you. another former governor, senator now tim cain will be with us. for seeing your business in a whole new way. for seeing what cash is coming in and going out... so you can understand every angle of your cash flow- last week, this month, and even next year. for seeing your business's cash flow like never before, introducing cash flow insight powered by pnc cfo. a suite of online tools that lets you turn insight into action.

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ng out of pipe. sfx: birds chirping. throughout this process, we have to get out of the habit is governing by crisis.

my hope and expectation is everybody has learned that there is no reason why we can't work on the issues at hand. hopefully that's a lesson that will be internalized and not just by me, but also by democrats and republicans not only the leaders, but the rank and file. thanks very much, everybody. >> is this going to happen all over again in a few months. >> no. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 on the west coast. time to wake up. the government is open. take a look at washington. that's where we are. >> so the government will go to work today? >> nope, i don't think so. if you look at the data, it won't work for you. no one is looking at that today. with us on set, we have michael steele, cokie robbers, al hunt

and in nashville, john meachem. >> yesterday, they were talking about the end of all time. >> a lovely discussion. of all time? >> forever or i exaggerated a little bit. this is going to ravage it. this is tomorrow. they said something because we have been around here. we knew how this was going to end before it started. right before the deadline on the debt ceiling, they fold. >> we knew how it was going to end, but that doesn't mean it should have happened. real people were affected. that's the part that nobody is really talking about. real single moms went through their savings in the last 17 days. a lot of people were affected by this while people on capitol hill made fools of themselves.

that's really what they did. >> al, with all apologies from the president of the united states, they are going to make fools of themselves again in a couple of months. >> that's the question he was asked on the way out. >> i had to laugh. >> just when i thought i was out, we are right back in. they are going to pull him back in. i am pessimistic about prospects of a budget accord. if there is not a budget accord, what's going to happen in january. >> let me speak for the crazy republicans in a second. in january, i do. i want tactics to go along with crazy. republicans are not going to support the taxes or bigger spending in january any more than they would have today. people that think the crisis

will be solved, it's not. we are not changing. i looked at that vote and it tells me this is not going away in your party by any means. rubio, paul, cruz, all voted against it. 65% of house republicans voted against it. guys who are scared of primaries. pat roberts voted against it. this is an issue, i believe with what cokie said. this is insanity. >> and this primary issue is really the issue. we talked about it before, but it's become in the ether. you see members of congress, this is conservative republicans from north carolina was to the right of michele bachmann and she was ready to keep the government going. she got crucified in her district. people coming to town meetings saying we are going to primary you. that's going to become the shout

out. >> it's interesting because i can't remember this ever happening. i remember after the background checks went down, a 9% approval rating in north dakota and even southern states in the 80s. we will have to wait until after the prime they're passes to get something that people want. we have it with this as well. i don't think i have seen it like this. >> it's much stronger than it ever has been. >> that's why things could change. speaker boehner was seen walking out pumping his fist after being asked if he fought the good fight. he reportedly received a standing ovation from the republicans about the shut down. not everyone was so enthusiastic. they said speaker pelosi part two, open january 5th, 2014. those critics are the club for

growth, heritage action, freedom works came out against the plan saying they will punish members who voted yes for the deal and earlier while mitch mcconnell was discussing the deal doing the hard work to get a deal done, ted cruz was across the hall holding a news conference where he tried to frame the turn the events. >> we saw the house of representatives take a courageous stand, listening to the american people. everyone in washington just weeks earlier said would never happen. that was a remarkable victory to see the house engage in a profile in courage. >> for jeremy, a lot of people thought ted cruz, what do you expect? >> nobody should have been surprised. >> this is his strategy. i know ted doesn't care what the "new york times" thinks, but for the most part people declared

this a democratic victory it was a democratic victory. he had to go out and put on a brave face. >> yes. he said all along as the conservative groups have been all along were winning. we won. that's part of what i think contributed to an odd dynamic. here you have in the shut down in almost 20 years. there is a vote to end it. it was like an anti-climate. we knew how this was going to end. >> i'm not sure about the tea party. >> the tea partiers didn't know, but given the litany that drives people crazy because they talk about myself and charles and scott walker and tom coburn and we all said this is how it's going to end. the fact that i was talking to

one senator and he said you guys with the shut down have shut down post traumatic stress disorder. we do, but we also know when the next bully would come in. >> michael steel -- >> that is the difference between those that charged the hill yesterday and those of us who were concerned. the big difference is in ideology. one group charged the hill before. >> the concern is the money wasted and the consternation created and even the credit rating when you come so close to default whether or not it could be impacted. there ramifications still to be seen on this. my question to you is does that make this different and no one can remember seeing anything like this before. we have got to stop governing by crisis. >> dwwe do and we have to rememr

that in january when we are back in the same circle and analyzing talking about it. there is a certain poison out there in the public. a lot of folks to cokie's opening point felt this deeply. there moms and dads who really struggle over the period as most of us don't like to admit. a lot of us live paycheck to paycheck. when you have that paycheck taken away for a brief period, 17 day, it has a profound impact on real people. that carries through to joe's broader point about the party's position here. instead of bringing people through crisis, we are creating it for them. instead of leading them into an idea of what a republican leadership really looks like and how that will make a difference, we are showing them the under

belly. >> this will surprise quite a few people, but al hunt, i want to for one moment have a defense of ted cruz in this idea that somehow this is all ted cruz's. if a tem kratic ted crdemocrati tried this, he would have been squashed like a bug. it took 72 freshmen to do this. there is a void hereof republican leadership in the house that didn't stand up and take charge and take control. >> his program was a democrat at that point. >> there is no such thing as leaders now. i spent time talking to your florida colleague before the

vote yesterday. >> you cannot -- what is it? >> listen, i just think these people don't worry about leadership among other things. leadership doesn't have the perks that tip o'neill and others had back then and the senate never had problems. everybody set earmarks, let's get rid of earmarks. we made a point that in 1996 when i got that clinton budget, i probably gave away six. that's not such a bad trade off. >> to his point, i think it's a valid point that when a vacuum is created in politics, it's going to be filled. when you go into this battle without a clear battle plan and

a strategy of what this is going to look like and how to come out on the other end, someone is going to fill that void. ted cruz filled that void. >> nobody stood up on the republican side on the house and said you know what, that's a horrible idea. we tried that in 1995. we get killed and reelected bill clinton. that's a horrible idea. >> and no one listened. >> the speaker didn't and the majority leader didn't. the leadership should have stood up early on and said great for the freshmen and the republicans think that woo we think that's cute. >> as bad as it sounds. i feel it's a time for the reference to the 1800. >> let's go back to 1750. >> what happened in 1787? >> please bore us.

>> tell us about what happened yesterday in your take on it. >> that's i hthe original meani of the word. that was a medical term. huh a crisis and you died or didn't die. we are rolling over into a political coma. to my mind, what lesson is both sides or three sides. you have the white house and one part of the republican party and the tea party. what lessons did they take away from the last 17 or 18 days? to me it's unclear. it's the president taking away the lesson that he stands tough and aloof? that also creates a void. and the boehnerites that figure if we hang on long enough we can muddle through this. as the tea partiers learned

there is a sugar high to the stands they take that we all say they lost and the "new york times" said they lost. they don't care because they are not functioning in the same universe. to me that's the great question. what did those three elements learn from this? otherwise we are going to be talking about this again in 12 weeks. >> speaking from experience, the tea partiers learned what we learned in 95 to 96. >> the question is whether thigh learned it. they might have experienced it. >> the question i asked every single one, what did you learn from this. a lot of them were at a loss to explain what that lesson was. they can't answer the question. will this happen again. >> they couldn't answer the end game from the beginning. the rest of us knew the end, but they didn't know the end. >> how could they not know the

end? >> they had no experience with this. >> there people that -- i heard cokie. i did hear some of them say we hear about those guys from 95 to 96. it reminded me of george w. bush who didn't want to hear from colin powell and despite the fact he fought and led the 50 iraq war. >> the whole world is teenagers. they rule from their parents and the same sort of ideas. who wants to listen to those folks. here's the thing to look at. the republican senate. the republicans have a very, very good chance of taking the senate at which mitch mcconnell was looking at. the republican party just took it in the piece over the last several days. our poll out this week, the disapproval of how they handled

it was 74% having gone up 11 points in the course of the shut down. the president stayed absolutely even and the democrats, 60 disapproved and not having changed the needle on them. the republicans that disapprove kept going up. >> republicans look to regroup after waving the white flag. we will talk to senator john mccain who supported it. barry black joins us. why he was compelled to speak out about what's going on in washington. >> get me out of here. get them out of here. >> who blames him. we'll be right back.

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>> unless i hear from a lot of people, i get my way. the american people saw it and didn't like it. the republican party has learned a lesson here and i think they are going to see more mainstream conservative republican party. i don't think we will have the same thing on january 15th and february 2nd. >> that was senator chuck schumer from new york on the state of the republican party. he is joining us now from capitol hill, republican senator

from arizona, senator john mccain. >> how are you doing this morning, senator? >> living the dream, joe. >> the question is, how do we get the 24% that approve of the republican party and the 21% who approve the tea party. how do we get them together again. there is obviously a divide that needs to be healed. >> first of all focus on the future and recognize we learned a lesson to ensure the american people would not do this again. the damage is horrendous. i had this whole line that we were down to blood relative and paid staffers and i overused that. i got a call from my mother who is 101. we could use blood relatives. >> that's not good. >> i lost my mom a long time ago. >> anyway, we have to assure the american people that we are not going to do this again. we do have to focus on the

provisions of obama care that is unacceptable and we need to change and we need to change obama care. to get a positive agenda for the party so that we can be for things rather than against things. to provide opportunities rather than blocks to progress. i am confident we can do that. we had tough times in the past and you were around the last time. i like to point out that we learned a lesson and we forgot it. i think that i'm very confident that we won't go through this exercise again at the expiration dates coming up. i'm confident of that. >> but yet senator while everything was happening and the boat was going down, you had members of the republican party doubling down. how do you get that agenda going

given some of the folks there? >> i don't think you have a majority of them anymore. you may have people -- we discussed this before. many were elected in 2 thousand and telling constituents they would do whatever is necessary to repeal obama care. they are fulfilling the commitment to constituents. i am confident they don't want to do this again. if they were committed to that, we would still have a government shut down. >> good morning, senator. i was going to ask you how badly you think your friend mitch mcconnell is damaged by the nice words chuck schumer said about him. you are part of this group of 14 centrist senators who is going to work on solutions and bridge this partisan divide. after these stepped up from the past, you see groups like yours

come together and struggle to produce meaningful results. why do you think this time will be different? >> we did reach an agreement and that agreement was a better deal for republicans than the ones we finally gave into. there were many more than 14 who wanted to join us and you might be interested that it is dominated my women much to my dism dismay. i think there is a willingness out there that we really don't want to -- the one thing politicians grave is approval. we know we have to start doing things differently. there is a lot of good people of good will who are ready to do that. it's not going to be unanimous, but i think there is a disomethg

to achieve the goals. >> that is hopeful, senator john mccain, always good to see you. >> living the dream, baby. living the dream. thank you. >> let's bring in republican representative from arizona. congressman? >> very excited about you running again this year. i bet you thought you won. before we go writing the obituary, pointing out a couple of things. yesterday in new jersey, a tea party guy. nobody knows him. running against the very popular and nationally famous mayor. it's 44% of the vote. >> during the shut down. also you look at the polls for arkansas in the senate, a staurch conservative republican

neck and neck. tom cotton has only been in office -- >> obviously point taken and i said this before, it's way too early to let anybody off. i know the election is a long way off. let me ask you this. we are talking to each other and they are the least. >> we thought that's coming. you and i took it on the side of the face. five or six times from bill clinton. we knew it was going to end this way. how did you repeat the mistakes of 95 and 96? >> president obama will postpone major parts of obama care before this is through. >> how did we make this mistake again some. >> i believe that many, many folks across the country especially in the house, the people's house that truly rep tent those folks came back

fighting to do everything to get rid of a harmful law. >> right. that's the thing. we all agree on trying to get rid of it. this is not about ideology. nobody thinks obama care is as bad as i do-over the long run. i think it's hurting jobs now and i agree with ted cruz. the 30 hour limit should be 40 hour. we should expand out the number of employees. i agree with all of that. this was all about the tactics that we knew were going to fail. >> you have to understand the frustration, joe. 40 times the republicans in the last four years tried to repeal or change obama care. nothing accomplished. >> we drove the approval rating down. >> at the end of the day, i think a few folks have spoken on the loudly about making major

changes to obama care and postponing the individual mandate. you have got "the chicago tribune" that echoed that sentiment. alan said the same thing and you have wolf blitzer and the people on the other side. we believe they should postpone. i'm not sure any of that would have happened. i'm not sure the national attention and the momentum, i honestly believe we will be able to make changes to obama care that will be helpful. >> good to see you again. i want to follow-up on that point. what we are seeing now is the roll out of obama care on the front page of politico. still broken. >> what are you talking about some. >> 9.8 million people go to the website and 36,000 sign up. why was it not to allow obama and the democrats own this.

our fight, our sweet spot has been on the economy. let's talk about the debt and the things that joe put out there about creating that environment for folks and mika is likely to go back and forth. that's the sweet spot. we distracted folks away from the conversation to do something and on the turf that quite frankly we were not going to win. >> i heard that echoed in political circles. from a purely political point of view, that probably makes a lot of sense. folks have said it would be better for the person party to say let it self implode and blame the democratsment there is a lot of folks, myself included that don't think that way. having the calamity and lives hurt and jobs lost and people kicked off insurance plans and all the people that would be hurt. we don't think that way. the president thinks that way.

let's shut the open air monument and make sure we don't get the money through to those that lost their husbands in afghanistan. try to make it as painful as possible to gain political advantage. republicans don't think that will way. our philosophy is try to stop the bad from happening. >> i don't think so. >> can i ask why republican his such a communication problem on for instance passing a bill in the house that had a lot of democratic support to open the park and passing a bill in the house to fund nih and passing a bill in the house that would have funded d.c. very few people understand that harry reid had 14 bills on his desk. we had the same problem in 95-96. why are republicans so bad at

communicating that? >> the party itself was very, very divided in the midst of this. we would have been a lot more successful. i think the other thing that was really, really hurtful is that no democrat senators or republican senators in the senate had to vote on anything. >> senator reid, you can bottle up. >> you said and i said on this show, harry reid has been the president's biggest pocket veto time and time again. >> he has been the de facto president. >> to blame the media. >> it is what it is. >> thank you very much. it's good to see you. >> thank you, matt. congratulations ongoing homestead. >> i will do more than that. >> up next, tim cain of virginia and cnbc is on what the mess in washington means for the economy. "morning joe" will be right back. i'm a careful investor.

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>> s >> democratic senator, tim cain. good times. >> i don't know about that. it's been unnecessary pain felt in virginia with the contractors and the federal workers. the staff is all coming back and i told you guys on the break, when they moved out, we moved into the office. >> we chased the mice back out of the office. >> ultimately it has been damaging. >> to the economy and people and our reputation. if there two good things to come out of it, one i am on the budget committee. along with that, we have high stakes to find a budget deal and hopefully we learned a lesson. we have been talking about shutting down the government is bad and hopefully people will take that lesson away.

>> they will assess the damage for us. >> just the increase in short-term interest rates added about $100 million to the deficit according to the announcements i saw yesterday. what american politicians don't understand since world war 2, we built this infrastructure that put the united states at the center of the grid. "we are the world's" reserve currency and have extremely low borrowing rates. we put all that at risk when we do these things and we are shifting away at u.s. dominance around the world. a very dangerous thing to have happen. i don't think politicians understand that because they have grown up in a world where that is the case. they can't imagine it going away. >> you are talking about the policies and you don't have to look at your own space. very conservative guys. during the shut down, he came out again with the government shut down. >> absolutely. >> it's a big 13r50surprise.

>> toxic. >> it means elections 2 1/2 weeks out. the shut down will have a major effect on the statewide races and house legislative races will be affected. >> senator, you said it well earlier. this is a low expectation, high stakes game with the budget conference. i wonder going into this, if all parties can be saying it's going to be hard to come to an agreement, how do you get there and how is this time different some how is this the opportunity to break the gridlock? >> this is like the education of the freshman senator. when i got in, they haven't done a budget in four years. we worked and did a budget and let's go to a conference committee. we couldn't start and we are able to start it. the expectations are low, but we don't see it any other way. i think that was a failed gimmick.

let's get back to the normal way of doing budget. we haven't done a budget that way for five years. it's going to take compromise. >> there needs to be something in place that prevents the government by crisis. >> that's a good point. i want to dove tail on the senator's point with the question on that. is this the new norm. we are going to be back in this room in 50 days. we will go to the same markets. how do they plan anything. how do they look down the road and say hey, we can expand and invest. they don't. >> very crippled american political system right now. they are trying to figure out what date to set the countdown clock to right now. >> the political system is damage and the economy is damaged. they have huge artificial support and the political system

is limping along. it's not a good recipe. >> annualized u.s. growth by a full percentage point. from 3% to 2%. it's a disaster. >> it's a disaster and it only increases the political tensions in the country. a lot of what's going on is economic angst. their families are hurting and they are hurting. that's going to cause more political anxiety in the future and the question is how can you possibly come to a deal in a world where everybody is getting more and more worried about their lifestyle and future? >> there is no change on the economy, but we got a deal because the democratic and the republican leader in the senate works together. there has to be compromise. >> tim cain, thank you. thank you. >> up next, praying for a miracle. chaplain barry black joins us.

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lord, with our federal shut o down, delays on payments of death benefits to the families

of children dying on far away battlefields, it's time for our lawmakers to say enough is enough. >> wow. >> that was a portion of the prayer delivered by barry black in the government shutdown. his message is to widespread attention. actually he not only is featured on "saturday night live" and all over the news, but you go to his weekly bipartisan prayer meeting. >> chaplain black, i called him senator black. chaplain black does an every other week prayer group that is bipartisan. he comes and offers up advice on how to do the job and stay grounded. he's not afraid to afflict the comfortable. those that challenge what we think about ourselves. >> from capitol hill, if you

were a southern baptist preacher and deliver that message in our church, everybody would be talking to you at the door. any senators come up to you and say hey, we don't want you talking politics? you stick to the bible? >> well, i think it would be very difficult for me to pray without reflecting the political environment that i'm in. politics is defined as relating to government. if the chaplain of the senate just uttered pious platitudes in his prayer, that would be irrelevant. i think my intersession on behalf of the people that i serve should reflect the challenges that we are facing. i haven't had a single lawmaker tell me to back off what i'm saying. >> have any along the way asked

you for advice? >> well, the nature of my role is advisory. there have been a number of lawmakers who wanted to discuss my feelings about a certain issue from a theological and ethical perspective. >> i can imagine what they are saying. >> chaplain, senator cain mentioned the bible study group that you have. bipartisan, i presume. you must be like moses parting the red sea with these guys sometimes. tell us about that. how does that play out, particularly when the tension is as hot as it has been over the last month or so. >> i have a bible study each week. senators from both sides attend that bible study. it's not nearly as difficult as

you might think. it would be like having lawyers coming together to discuss jurisprudence. you may have prosecutors and defense attorneys in there, but law is law. our lawmakers are people of faith. paul said in corinthians 4, there saints in caesar's household. there spiritually and ethically fit people on capitol hill. when we come into our bible study, we are discussing theological construct that each lawmaker is interested in. it's not that complicated. we have more in common theologically than most people would imagine. >> chaplain, good morning and thank you for talking to us again. i never know how to address you because you have so many titles. i will ask you, does the country

get what you have been praying for. there is a resolution to this crisis. what will you pray this morning when you convene the senate? >> i have a prayer ready for the next convening. i think it will reflect what our lawmakers are feeling and i think that that is gratitude to god. i think there were many people of faith around the nation. they were praying that this impasse would be broken and i will reflect some of that in my prayer. i think this challenge that we have just met is going to make us stronger as a nation. david said in the 119th psalm, it is good for me that i have been afflicted. sometimes it's good when a

nation goes through chicago and when that nation comes out stronger as a result of that. >> all right. >> one of the best thing the chaplain does is encourages us to look at each other and have that civility and courtesy. that is in short supply. the compromise gene. chaplain black always finds that good in each other and work better together and that's why we value him. >> thank you. we'll be right back. >> good to be with you. thank you. baron of the build-out. you need a permit... to be this awesome. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. (aaron) purrrfect. (vo) meee-ow, business pro. meee-ow. go national. go like a pro.

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>> there is a lot going on. >> absolutely. up next, what if anything did we learn. >> i learned something from matt, but i don't know if i will repeat it. >> i don't think you should. woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him

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>> what we learned today. what did you learn? >> there was something else going on in washington. i was at the fortune most powerful women summit. sarah blakley is the coolest. the founder of spanx. they make spanx for men. one was there who really likes sarah. he wants to cut a deal with her. we had a wonderful time. thanks if are having me. >> what did you learn? >> we have come together in this moment. we are done. 60 days. >> i learned in this era of radical bipartisanship, a group comes together for bible study.

republicans and democrats and maybe that's a way forward. >> great news. we have things outside. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." chuck todd will ask you you. the dodgers won. we want to see this. >> this game is over. the latest round of governing by crisis. they dodged the default and the severe damage to be done to our leaders and image in the world. perhaps most severely to the republican party brand. one of the democrats who wrote the senate solution and oren 4567, a better republican who has seen his share of shutdowns, but always with this one. new jersey has a new senator-elect and his name is kory booker. how many people voted on a wednesday and i'm